To disagree or agree?

Get a wetsuit, the more comfortable you are the better, a surf one in my experience is not as good as a tri one or a sleveless as it chages your stroke technique due to shoulder resistance. Cut the arms off if you have to go cheap. Only my opinion from experience.

Get some open water practice: Totally agree and between the 2 piers down at beach rd in Melb near Kerferred rd heading towards Port Melb is 1km

Swimming in ocean is easier? Agree and Disagree, more bouyant for sure with the salt water and wetsuit thats about it. Bodies fighting for position, sucking down salt water, no black line to follow, having to sight ahead so you swim straight, all things required for the ocean.

But on the other hand you sound fit enough and have ample time to train so you will be fine.
Good Luck :)

Hi downunder runner,

did you say that you doing a Tri in Geelong at Easter with No Wetsuit :)
You're a lot braver than I am.

There is actaully a 1500m open water swim on in Geelong in a couple of weeks if you wanted a trial. Here's a link to the site.

Definitely go for it!! Back when I did my first sprint tri (the 'ol highschool days) I could swim forever in the pool, but would have a mini panic attack in the ocean. I still remember the Mooloolaba tri swim, even with goggles on, eyes shut so I couldn't see under the water, and then have a quick look when I took a breath. But once I got into a rhythm then it wasn't so bad after all. I agree with the previous posters - get a couple of oceans swims in. They don't have to be 1500m, but just enough to get past any panic sensations, and so you feel confident on the day. And on race day, you'll feel like you're starting one minute, and running up the beach the next. You are more than capable - I reckon you should do it.

Hey there,

Just adding my yes vote to the chorus - Go For It!!! The longer swim in the ocean is not as daunting as you think. Sure its hard (you said you wanted a challenge, right!!), but its very, very do-able...

As for wetsuits... I have never, ever worn a wetsuit for the swim in a tri. That includes a couple of Olympic Distance races.

Certainly, that has left me as the odd one out on occasion as we line up on the beach for the start, but I don't think its such a big deal. I don't know what the notional time savings are, but don't feel pressured into getting a wettie if you don't have one.

Best of luck!!
Abby

down under u will be fine me thinks
i did the olympic at geelong couple of years ago and had a ball ,,was semi last out of water and agree u do need to do some swimming in the ocean as it is different ,,i am not a swimmer but like all things if u put in the training u will get the results,,if u can, go a wetsuit ,,will give u confidence and will make it safer for u ,,worse case u will just float in
dont get too excited at swim staart and be aware of were others are in the water ,,i have been swum over and cant recomend it ,,it is something that may happen as u go round bouys but dont let it deter u at all
have a ball and enjoy yourself

good call slow dave
did a 1500 at St kilda last year and cause it was like a M shape and i am not a great navigator :rolleyes: i swam more than the 1500 ,,even if u add a 100 metres to each leg it will add up :D :D

ah ... fair points. I guess learning how to sight landmarks for keeping your navigation on track is indeed a skill of it's own. Simply followong the bubbles in front isn't a safe enough tactic either as it's often a case of the blind leading the blind.

As others have mentioned, it's always worth doing a few open water swims to get used to this. I sort of forgot about that - I hate the pool so much, I do 90% of my swim training in open water :rolleyes:

The amount of advice and encouragment I have received here from you guys is just soooooo wonderful !!! Thank you, thank you, thank you!

I just have to do it now! The swim training session I go to on Sunday nights practices 'sighting' and is mainly a technique session - which is what I need. I also intent to practice these drills on 1 or 2 other sessions during the week.

I also have AT LEAST 2 other ocean swims before Easter....both of them a shorter than 1500...so maybe if anyone knows of any other ocean swims (apart from the one you mentioned Repoman) please let me know! I would prefer to do longer swims with others.

Wetsuit - I can understand the benefits (and yes it may be chilly too!). So you think IF I GET ONE I should go for a full arm lenght one? what are some of the tricks to getting a wetsuit off as fast as possible? I heard you need to smear some stuff on your skin underneath?

Anyway.......thanks again for the terrific support and encouragement... I have a mini tri this weekend at Portarlington and looking forward to improving AGAIN on my swim leg...and then powering past in the cycle and run....so far NO ONE in my age category has come close to my run times and cycle leg has been top 3 as well BUT of course this will change as I compete in the longer distances...

Ahh...a runner turned triathlete? NO, it couldn't be me....I always thought running was my first love....it is....I think!!

Here's a link to an Open Water Swim Calender for Victoria.

I bought a wetsuit in October last year as I wanted to do more open water swims this summer. Last year by March it was getting to cold for me in the water down here in Melbourne. (Note how many Northerners told you not to bother with a Wetty! What do they know about cold!).

I bought a full length suit, I figured why not go the whole way with more buoyancy and more protection from the cold. As fas a getting out of the wetty goes I think Bodyglide or baby oil are the usual go.

Maybe next year I'll join you on the "dark side" and give a Tri a go as well :)

Hi Downunder Runner, I don't know what squad you train with at the moment, but I train with Fluid Movements and we have an openwater training session every Saturday, meeting at Middle Park SLC on the sea front around 11.30-11.45, they are free sessions (I think the coach sees them as a way to recruit new members ;-)) so if you want company for a training swim why not come along one Saturday and try it out.

www.fluidmovements.com

websites not very good, being redesigned in Feb but if you click on the open water link on the left there's loads of info there about open water technique etc.

Do it mate. Go hard. Stand in the middle of the front line - tighten your goggles 2cm more than normal. When the gun goes - hit it. Lead the pack - do 40 long hard strokes and get into the lead. Cruise hard in the lead for the first 500m leave those backmarkers to drop off - throttle back a touch for the next 500m and then wind it up in the final 500m - all the way through it - drop the guys that are second and third behind you. Rip out of the water - LEADING - girls will be going nuts mate (read doing backflips). Then get to the transition area. Fake a cramp. Pull outta the event go home with the cheersquad girlies and tell em its early prep days for you and your Beijing Olympics campaign and you hope that your sponsors Kelloggs and Speedo wont have a prob with you pulling out this early in the campaign and not to worry and then write your account of what follows here on coolrunning. Go Hard.

PS - Remember to fully shave down. I would probably get a tattoo too.

Dave

Thanks for the link Red haired girl...I might just come along one Saturday...sounds great!

ahh Dave...love your sense of humour, except I don't think the 'girls will be going nuts' (or anyone for that matter) unless of course they fancy the same gender... !!

btw, I'm doing the Gelong race too hopefully!

Hair conditioner on the outside of the wetsuite around wrists and ankles works great. won't damage the suite either.

If you can buy or borrow a wetsuite I would. You will come out of the water with a lower heart rate, using less effort, but with a similar time and enjoy the rest of the race.

HI DR

I am a triathlete in sunny Perth and would also recommend a wetsuit for Geelong (my girlfriend lives there and I have been surfing in January and froze!) At the very least check out surf shops for a wetsuit top - I have one for paddling (PEAK brand) that has rashie material under the arms for good movement and wear it with tri top and shorts for cold tris here in WA (Yes we do get under the 23 degrees here sometimes)
Or failing that a tight rash shirt also provides a degree of warmth - just make sure it doesn't cause drag in the water.

Whatever you do try it out in training beforehand or an OWSwim so you can test race conditions.

Go for the Easter OD and enjoy!! I am very envious that you had a good run leg... this is my weakest -hence getting on to CR to get some great advice :-)

Ciao

thanks again for all the advice and encourgement......I will think seriously about at least borrowing a wetsuit for the day.

did Portarlington mini tri on Sunday...beautiful day, a great (but not easy) course. Used my new bike for the first time (in a race) which has toe clips and YES you guessed it, I fell off as I was coming into the transition zone for the run....shoe got caught in toe clip.

I now have a broken wrist (in plaster) and many cuts and bruises......BUT mostly it is VERY annoying as I cannot swim which is what I need to do most. Still, I got up and ran the best run i have done yet and managed a 3rd placing in my age cat....10th overall I think. I did not realise I had a fracture until the adrenaline had worn off a bit !!

Really sorry to hear about your accident DR - hope it doesn't slow you down too much.

One thing to be wary of (and others may be able to clarify this), but I'd heard that wearing one-piece wetsuits can be deemed illegal in some races. I believe this applies to the pants only option (i.e. a long-john type wetsuit without the upper vest - looks like a pair of skins). I'm not sure if I'm correct about this, but others here might be able to confirm. Upper one-piece suits would be fine, and are seen quite regularly. But all they will do will provide warmth. There is no real buoyancy advantage gained from a wetsuit unless it covers your lower body (lifting the legs is where wetsuits provide the advantage)

Just get that checked out before you borrow a suit off someone that might not actually be legally permitted for the race.

Oh DR! I hope you are ok! How long does the plaster need to stay on for? I also hope your new bike is ok too. ;) (Skin grows back for free but paint chips cost money! he-he) Champion effort on the run though. That is awesome. Can you still do some strength work on your shoulders and upper body until you can get back in the water? Probably hard to hold a dumbbell, but maybe using a band from floor-to-forearm to do bicep curls - I know you'll improvise with something. Have you still got enough time to swim train after the plaster comes off? I wish you all the best with your recovery and with your goal race at Easter.

thanks minersrun and Jo73 for your words...it is just so frustrating that the one thing i cannot practice (because of this accident) is the one thing I need to improve the most (swimming!!).

Yes, thanks Jo, it was a great run leg, particularly since I had just fallen..the only female who was faster was/is an olympian!! I think I was just so angry for falling and my own fault as I was rushing too much and still very inexperienced in these 'transitions'.

Hubby has gone out and bought us yesterday cycling shoes and the kelts ?(right spelling?) - no more toe clips...but of course this is another thing to practice ...crikey !! the sport of running seems so easy....but prehaps that is why i am attracted to Tris now...more challenge.

I'm guessing you're referring to the "cleats" for the clip-less pedal systems? If so, have fun ... I guarantee you'll fall off at least once or twice in the first month (I still do occasionally).

It especially seems to occur when you're slowing as you approach a busy intersection. The more witnesses queued at the intersection, the greater the likelihood that you won't be able to un-clip in time and topple sideways :rolleyes:

Take care of your wrist if you're trying them out!

You will love cycling with cleats. They make such a difference. What shoes did you get? I used to wonder why triathlon-specific cycling shoes had the velcro strap open towards the outside then I realised it was so you could get going out of transition and the velcro flap would hang outside of your foot so it didn't get caught in the wheel. So when do we see you on the front cover of Australian Triathlete? :D

Have been reading your posts with great interest. So sorry to hear about your accident, I hope it doesn't damage your confidence too much. I only bought my bike in November and it was my first with cleats. Did my first club tri three weeks ago and came 3rd. Like you my handicap is the swim. I get myself so worked up before a race I freak out in the water and can't breathe. Yet in training swim 2.5-3km in an hour 2-3 times a week. I did my first open water swim in a tri on the weekend and couldn't even put my head under the water. It is so annoying. I want to do the Newcastle Foreshore tri this weekend, but don't want the same thing to happen (only 500m open water swim). Can catch up in the ride and run but don't know how to overcome this swimming problem. I hope you don't take too long to recover, good luck.
;)

minersrun.......oh, great.. more crashes in store for me. Now why I am doing this again ?

Do the cleats get a little less 'stiff' over time? Yes, I did just try them out and found it hard to get my shoe/foot in and out again (just practice around the block and up/down our driveway. I suppose this is a silly question, as it is meant to be stiff isn't it??

Jo, I got Shimano shoes - very very stiff soles - my hubby got DMT shoes - not as stiff as mine...soles are made of something else? Mine were a bit more expensive but the cycling shop took off some money since we bought them together.

on the cover of the Aust tri? yeah right, unless it is for the worst swimmer-but best chaser age grouper !! he, he??

what about you guys? when is your next race? what does your training week look like? And how often do you do a brick session?

Glad that you know there's more excitement in store for you DR ;)

Not sure if I've mentioned that I keep a training log before. It's here in case you're interested enough to have a read.

Currently, you'll find that my training is a bit higher in quantity than usual because I'm in training for the Ironman in April. However, the next race on the agenda is the Trial Bay Triathlon held up here on the Mid North Coast of NSW at South West Rocks in a fortnight's time. This is just about my favourite race (750m - 30km - 6km) because of the fabulous setting, and the fact the run course ends with a 1500m agonising run in soft sand where you can *see* the finish line off in the distance. Great fun :)

When I got my new clip on's years ago I fell off my bike three times in 100M going through the city. Expect more falls rather than less. Your brain has to learn that you can not just pull your foot out but have to twist it out. You need to react instantaneously and not have to think about it because the fall happens too fast. I would practice lots putting your feet in and out. That might also loosen the mechanism up a bit. Practicing on a windtrainer first is not a bad idea.

I have entered my first Olympic distance Tri at Mooloolaba and never swum seriously before the last few months. If I can swim close to 30 minutes I will be ecstatic, and I expect to be caught by everyone in the two waves behind. Hope we can use wetsuits!

Downunder runner,
I will be doing my first sprint triathlon in Canberra - first weekend of March.
I have had one fall already on the bike - I only got it recently so I have to get used to my look pedals...
I am not a great swimmer, so I think the swim will be my greatest challenge... Although I am sure the three disciplines together will be even more challenging. But it is exciting, isn't it?
Good luck to you! :) -- you can check the thread i had started "First tri in March - realistic."

jodie.......as I said in Yabbies post, I know EXACTLY how you feel about the swim and I find it very, very annoying too. You sound similar to me - you expect a lot of yourself and the swim is letting you down you feel ? yes, me too.

i suppose the only way is MORE open water racing experience - it is great that you belong to a club where you can do regular swims. Once I get this silly plaster off I cannot wait to improve although it is amazing how well I can do on the bike and run because i am angry/frustrated about being a very average swimmer. The mind really is the most powerful muscle when it comes to sport.

I really hope you do well this weekend!! Please post and give us a race report!! how long is the ride and the run?

The weekend race is 500m/18km/4km. I am still in two minds, really want to do it but the swim has me doubting myself. Will get a one piece tri-suit tomorrow night, I will use it for club races. I try to tell myself I'm not racing against anyone else but myself & that I should just get in & swim as normal but once that gun goes off I just go to pieces (I feel completely nauseous even before that). I know it will just take practice, (then watch out miners-run, ha ha :P ).

Just to let you know that a one-piece trisuit is actually a reasonably good compromise from purchasing a wetsuit (although they're still expensive too). They won't really provide any floatation at all, but they certainly do make your swim leg quicker (at least for us hairy blokes they do). More streamlined in the water, much like the Aussie swimming team with their skinsuits.

When you're buying a one-piece trisuit, think about what sort of races you'll be using it for. If you're not planning on racing beyond Olympic distance (1.5km - 40km - 10km) then you probably don't want to buy a suit with pockets in the back. That way, you'd be able to use the trisuit for all distances up to Olympic in case the water temp is too warm for wetsuits. Pockets in the back will drag a bit in the water.

If you're planning on longer distance races where you may be taking energy gels with you, you might then contemplate a trisuit with pockets. You can still comfortably wear a wetsuit over the top (and even leave your gels in the pocket under the wetsuit for the swim-leg too).

However, just to throw you into more confusion, if you're thinking about racing Half Ironmans (HIM), Ironman (IM) and Long Course Tris, then you need to realise you are quite likely to need a toilet stop during the race. In those instances, the one-piece trisuit can be a disadvantage (for obvious wardrobe-malfunction type reasons). That's one reason why you'll often see people competing in HIM and IM in a 2-piece - i.e. tri-top and tri-shorts.

Just a bit more food for thought ;)

Hey Minersrun, It seems to be a given that if you are going to get “serious” with triathlons that a wetsuit is the norm -what would your estimate be of the time saved in wearing a wetsuit? – say for yourself doing am Ironman event do you have an idea of what your wetsuit/ non wetsuit times would be and how they would compare?
It’s obviously (another!) expense. Is there a distance when it becomes a disadvantage to not have one? – Say for example when (if?!) we go to age group and or club comps, would we really need to have one? In the mini –tris there are more people without than with wetsuits on.
Also – what brand do you use? – buying the wrong one would be an expensive mistake!!

I reckon I lose as much in transition trying to get the wetsuit off, as I gain in the water! I was told that the main advantage of the wetsuit is the extra buoyancy, and the fact that you don't need to kick as much, so can save your energy for the bike and run. I think that the longer distance you do, the more benefit you get.

Yeah, red haired girl (love that handle - I'm a big peanuts fan myself) got it right in regards to the buoyancy effects, and the fact that you can virtually finish an ironman length swim-leg without kicking if you feel like it. I would say that a suit improves my swim leg by at least 10-15 seconds per 100m, but I'm not sure if that would apply for everyone.

However, it's also correct to say that the benefit of having one is exaggerated as the distance of your swim-leg increases. The time you save on the swim leg can be wiped away with a slow transition, hence you need to abide by the 'less haste more speed' principle when removing them.

I personally find mine very easy to get out of, so it's not a problem. However, some people do have trouble struggling out of the suits - it's quite common to see guys struggling to get them off, panicking and falling over while both feet are still stuck in the legs of the wettie. I don't bother wearing one for swims of less than 750m in distance for this reason for example.

Rather than the Ironman or Orca brands which are probably the most common, I bought an Aleeda suit which was cheaper, better designed for transition (with 3/4 length leg so they're really easy to get off) and is sleeveless. I've never needed to use baby-oil or vaso to get the suit off quickly - in fact, I've heard that both these products can damage the rubber, and void your warranty? I do use bodyglide to prevent chafing behind the neck though. Unless you're looking on ebay, I think you'd be paying approx $299-$399 for an entry level, sleeveless Ironman suit. Aquaman, 2XU, Zoot or Orca suits are probably a little dearer again. The Aleedas are a little cheaper. Ebay often have cheaper suits for sale, but you'd want to be 100% sure about your sizing. A too tight or too loose suit would be next to useless - I've seen many friends of mine panic from wearing suits that are too small as they are very restrictive around the neck and inhibit your breathing. Above all other types of clothing, always get 'fitted' when purchasing a wetsuit - I couldn't stress that enough.

Probaby 75% of wetties you see in races are full-sleeve - I just personally like the freedom of the sleeveless (+ it's not that cold up this way). I've also seen a few of the full leg-length wetsuits with the bottom 6 inches of the leg deliberately cut-off by the wearer to assist in easy removal.

Downunder Runner - Just agreed to do run leg in a team entry for this weekend Newcastle Foreshore Tri. Takes the pressure off me to perform in the swim, so ok about it. Will wait to do my next club meet on 26th Feb now.

this is all great 'food for thought' discussion about wetsuits and swim times....I have only done 3 ocean swims of very short distances (200m, 250m and 300m) but as I start to get into 'longer' distances and hopefully 1500m by Easter, then a wetsuit is looking like a must.

Thanks for all your advice minersrun...it is so valuable to us newbie triathletes.

I also want to get a one piece trisuit for my next triathlon..... Jorex.......what is the brand you are getting/have? Do you think I should try it on before I buy or is internet OK (i have seen some Orca ones on the web but soooo expensive at $199 !!).

Minersrun - do you try and draft on other swimmers? Do you feel this makes a difference? How do I do it? swim just behind or just to the side?

oh, Jodie...forgot to say have a great run this weekend!! You will blitz them! Maybe you can watch the swimmers go out and get some pointers and observe what the top swimmers are doing..

hope to hear a race report soon !

Yes, trisuits are pretty expensive. They're nowhere near as restrictive as wetsuits, so if the size is a *little* off it won't matter too much. But if you're really keen on making it a good investment, it's worth taking the time to get it sized right.

I have a Cannibal suit (no pockets) which retails for about $189, but bought it cheap through a friendly bike shop owner. Fantastic suit, and would recommend it if you're looking around. The 2XU, eyeline & jaggad suits are also really good if you're looking for something other than Orca. I think Zoot have also only just started retailing in Aus.

As for drafting in the swim, the common theory is to swim alongside, about mid-way down the body in front. This way you get the effect of the trailing bow-wave from the stronger swimmer (and make sure they ARE stronger, not slower - but not TOO much stronger or you'll be spent halfway through the swim).

However if you're sitting directly behind, you will still get dragged along to an extent - besides which, you then have some bubbles to follow, provided they know which way they're meant to be going.

I think most triathletes would gain more benefit from spending the money on stroke correction or even just buying a "Total Immersion" book or video, rather than a wetsuit - unless you're swimming somewhere really cold.

I swam faster without a wetsuit over 1900m than with one. I also came in the top 3rd of all competitors in the swim leg (but let's not mention the bike leg). Although I knew how to swim when I was a kid, my first squad swimming lesson was at age 22. The good thing about swimming is, moreso than the other legs, you can improve based on technique alone.

I've raced in Orca and Cannibal suits. I much prefer the Orca one, however the Cannibal is better for longer races as it has the pocket in the back and covers the shoulders and upper back better for sun protection.

For any females out there considering buying a suit, I found both of these quite supportive as well.

thanks heaps Tank girl (yes, i am female, so thanks for that bit of info) and minersrun again.

Will start to save up the pennies!