A knee injury has forced me to have a break from running this week <_< . I actually feel refreshed by the break, and recognise the message there, but a craving for some physical activity saw me at the pool this morning swimming laps (first time in about 20 years!) ;) . The experience posed a couple of questions that some of you triathletes may like to answer.

Out of habit I warmed up as usual standing there in my bathers at poolside. Calves, hamstrings, quads, hips etc. you know the drill but forgot about the arms and shoulders. I noticed that other lap swimmers were not warming up. What is the go regarding warm ups for swimmers?

I did 1/2K, or is that 500 meters in swimming talk, in about 20 minutes alternating between breast stroke and freestyle. Pleased with the effort but wondering the cardio benefit/comparisson with running? I would have done 10K this morning at about 5 min pace and normally run about 50 - 65K per week.

I feel physically more drained (no pun intended) but the cardio system coped with it fine.

Having been injured for the majority of my running 'life' cross training is a topic that i have become familiar with. Pending the nature of your knee injury and if it your are wanting to isolate the joint swimming with a pool bouy is a prefered option. I have been unable to run for the last 2 months with swimming and boxing being the cardio alternative. To increase your cardio levels in the pool try hypoxic efforts. Thats it swimming 25mtrs without taking a breath or pyramid breathes (sorry swimmers out there-poor terminology)which is breathing every every 1-3-5-7-9-1-3..etc. If this doesn't increase your oxygen intake i dont know what will. Another option if your knee allows the movement is pool running either with boyancy vest or without. This is as difficult as you want for it to be. I have spend half my life in the pool from being injured and these seem to be the only things that keep me sane and also keep my head (fitness levels) above water.
;)

Morley, if you haven't swum for 20 years then I can confidently say that the cardio benefit compared to running will be very small as unless you are quite competent inthe water your upper body muscles will not be able to push the cardio system hard enough to do much good. your upper body supplies about 70% of your forward propultion in the pool. If you keep swimming regular then you will get benefits in the longer term.
If you just want to use it as an option short term for an injury then try do more kick sets if your knee allows this or water run. If your knee is no good then try the pool bouy option as this allows you to float better and still swim without having to kick much at all. If you have aleg injury then DON'T do breast stroke the cork screw kick action will play havoc with your knees and hips and groin.
As for warm up... seeing as most work is upper body...why stretch your legs?? :)
You will feel more drained as your bodies survival mechanisms were probably freaking out the whole time and this is very draining on your nervous system.
Stick with it though the benefits are great from a recovery and injury prevention point and you will untlimately run better because of it.
Last point if you can speak to somebody locally who can give you a few pointers inthe water to swim more correctly and expalin some of the jargon to you. If no one avialable then I am happy to help a bit if you want.
Happy swimming :D ;)

Hi Morley

My kind of thread - welcome to my world! :) I have been swimming the past 8 weeks due to a running injury.I must admit that at times I find looking at the pool tiles dead boring but I am able to get through and have a good work-out each session. I usually swim 20-30 laps four times a week. I'm not overely educated in this whole swimming thing but I don't do any warm ups - just jump in the pool and away I go. To date, I think I have only ever seen a handful of people doing stretching before swimming. I find that at the end of my session I feel like I've done a good work out. I'm getting faster and my strokes/kicking is getting much better which leaves me needing to take a breather every 10 lap mark. When I found out that I could only do swimming due to my running injury I immediately emailed a bunch a friends to see who would like to join me and I managed to get a swimming squad of 5 together! It made swimming much more enjoyable and my friends enjoyed the opportunity to have a swimming routine every Saturday and Sunday. I'm enjoying the swimming but after 8 weeks I am looking for a new challenge and have been chatting to a triathlon swimming coach at my Uni pool so I might try that as she was quite encouraging.

To keep it interesting, try inviting some friends along or try a squad. Also, if allowed, try including kickboard and backstroke etc. Just do what you can for now - you will soon find that you will get faster and will be able to go for longer.

Good luck in the pool! :D

re stretching. just jump in, do a slow 200 m. then stretch upper arms chest etc.

re cardio:
forget long endless laps, thinking that, hey I'm so fit, I swam 5 kms today without stopping. treat it like running. for max return you need to mix up long runs with sprint sessions. (one long run/swim a week is fine)

get yourself a waterproof HRM and mini white board to record HR and split times.

try pyramid. ie 4 x 50 m FAST as you. rest between each 50m for the length of time it took you to swim it. then do 2 x 100m: rest period again half of time you did 100m. 1 x 300m. rest maybe 45 secs then back down the scale again.

there are stacks of programmes out there which are geared towards cardio. go search the web or make up your own. another idea, take a sqizz at the training squads white board and pinch their programme.

use kick boards (although check with treating physician whether this will place undue stress on knee). flippers - great for strengthening hips and gluts - don't think that the if you're overtaking everyone else that it's easy. you'll be able to tell the next day if you've put enough effort in. Also the float between the thighs (name eludes me) - excellent for upper body strength - also good if you need to rest your knee.

Using a combination of the above a solid 45-60 minute sesssion 3, 4 times a week should really keep the cardio fitness up there.


good luck
maz

Agree with Mazza - go up to the Squad training whiteboard at your pool and check out their routine - add a few of their workouts to your own. If the Squad coach catches you checking out their whiteboard then just pretend you're interested in joining. :D

Morley, this is the problem :

You would have done high quality aerobic run,
10km in 5 min/km. The point is AEROBIC, and the duration was 50 mins.

When You swimm, the upper body doing the job, has different muscless, and the work is mostly anaerobic. So You did only 20 mins, but You feel buggered. Because of ANAEROBIC.

The other suggestions above, doing sprints, sets, pyramids etc, are making it even more anaerobic.

So You are not helping Your running aerobic development at all, actrually You are sabotaging it.

My view anyway.

If You do Kicks only (holding to the board),
alternating freestyle kicks, breastroke kicks,
You are close to aerobic legs only workout, and Your running will benefit. Other option is water running. Both (water run, and kicks) are also making stronger ankles, arches, claves, hips etc,
which will lead into better running biomechanics later on.
And try also the backstroke kick (works hams differently).

There is additional advantage from kick traing only - holding the board (or few), I can have the head above water all the time, no need for gogles, and no face in the urine-chlorine mixture

Lost in translation in my opion is right on the money... Since i started squad swimming doing those 3,5,7,9, breathing drills my aerobic ability has improved out of sight, honestly cut 20 secs per k off my running time. :D

Ok there seems to be some conflicting advice appearing here already. So here is my 2 cents :)
1. DON'T DO BREASTROKE KICKING it will fruther aggreviate the knee and your groin area and you will be injured for longer with one or two new injuries. :)
2. I agree with Rudolf don't go doing anareaobic sets. You can swim shorter intervals as Mazza has suggested but just work on swimming them nice a steadily (like an easy paced run). Mazza the floaty thing is called a pool bouy (as per my earlier post)
3. Don't steal squad sets, firstly its unethical and secondly even if you can make sense of what is written it will be way beyond your capabilities at the moment (this is like saying steal Mottrams track set if you can!!)
4. Flippers won't really activate your glutes etc unless they are the short bladed ones. Most peoples flippers ar long bladed and have more impact on ankle flexibility than anything. But do use them even swim freestyle and backstroke with them. They will make swimming feel easier and thereby you are more likely to do a bit more of it. Just don't become dependant on them.
5. HRM probably not very pratical in the pool as it will slip down every time you push off the wall. You can leave it at the side of the pool and check it at the end of each lap, but as you are doing rehab work I don't think it is neccessary.
5. You can try all four strokes for variety JUST do butterly kick with fins when you do breaststroke, 2 kicks one stroke.

Happy swimming

B+,
You correct, my appology,
I forgot, the thread started with knee injury.

So if the injury is such that breastroke kick will agravate, than of course....

I did get carried away into general swimming for runners advice...

Thanks for all the information and advice. The knee is not serious. Just needs some rest and I thought some x-training would help. Been building up the Kms as part of my 1st marathon preparation (Willamstown 28 May) and my 49 year old knees were letting me know they were not happy. Four months of 200K+ and long runs now up to 32K. Did an easy 23.5K on the flat today, iced the knees and see how they are tomorrow. Enjoyed the swim and going again tomorrow so the posts have been very helpful. Seriously thinking of reducing running and supplementing with X-training to reduce wear and tear and add variety to fitness program. Thanks everyone.

I'm out with ITB (knee) and am doing heaps of swimming 8-10k a week. Dead boring but does keep the exercise rhythm going. I am in Pat Carroll's group in Brisbane. Pat says that swimming is virtually useless for runners, advocating pool running, rowing or cycling as better options - so take that on board chaps.

I stuck with swimming because I was worried about the other options upsetting my knee.

For myself, I agree with Pat in terms of direct benefit. I was extremely fit when the ITB hit and no matter how intense my swimming sessions, I could never get fatigued anywhere near running levels. (I must admit, I just do a solid 4 x 500m - I'll now try the suggested pyrimids).

On the other hand, as a 46yo, I find swimming twice a week eases the muscles and joints and I believe it helps prevent injury in my age group.

quote:

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1. DON'T DO BREASTROKE KICKING it will fruther aggreviate the knee and your groin area and you will be injured for longer with one or two new injuries.

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Yep agree with that, but for those swimmers needing a break from freestyle, try breaststroke with a butterfly kick.