Hi All

Maybe it’s too much caffeine in the afternoon, but I had a thought?


The other day I was plodding (as usual) around the Tan in Melbourne , I had done a few laps and wondered just how many laps of the Tan has been completed by an individual in one go ?

So, having done close to 30 Ultras with the Tan being 3.8K’s or so I reckoned you could do around 30-50 laps “fat ass” style, or if you had transport close-by for support who knows ?.

What do you think? And has this been tried before? If so just how many laps were completed?

Must admit. I was confused by the subject title and thought you were referring to ultra runners having a good tan!....sorry!

I knew what you meant Knees but I would have no idea or any suggestion as to how to find out either.

Hi Nick,

In the early 80's, a number of ultra runners of the time ran up to 50 miles [80km] around the Tan for training. Expat Canadian, Bob Bruner, reportedly ran 25 laps to celebrate his birthday!!

A group of a few others regularly did ultra training around the 2 mile [3.2k] loop that is Princes' Park. For shiftworkers, weekdays were the favoured long runs. Geoff Molloy [1984 Sydney - Melbourne winner] ran several 100 mile training runs around this loop in 1984-85. He would start at midnight and generally finish mid to late evening!!!

The 3 mile lap of Albert Park played host to more than one of Tony Rafferty's multi day solo runs.

Hi Kev

I trust your keeping well, haven’t caught up with you since this years Dam run.


Thanks for the info, I knew someone would have done something.

Anyway, it would seem that for the Tan, apart from the 1980’s not much has been recorded - 25 laps is no mean feat (around 95km).

But, has anybody done the 3 figures yet ??, what about a 100 miler (43 laps) !!!

You can see where this might be going.

Well done OldKnees in volunteering to organise a 100 mile race around "The Tan". Sounds excellant!

Phil

I've done 6, 3 by myself completing a progressive session (get faster each lap) and then did the same session with a friend and helped her complete the same session.

A total of 6, I didn't ran the Tan for nearly two months after that... But then I do not have the temperment of an ultra runner.

perhaps the definition of what is :

AT ONE GO

would be usefull.
is it in 24H, or is it without sitting down, or without leaving the location ?

my best multi laps of Tan

5 laps 59:45 (not an ultra)
10 laps 2:06:00 (just under)
13 laps 3:01:01 (almost 50k)

Well Nick, after a shocker at Walhalla, I was wishing you had have been there to give me someone to chase a la 2006.

Another event of interest was Gordon Burrowes solo effort to celebrate the millennium. Setting up his van near Government House [which would probably constitute a terrorist threat these days!], he set off at 7:30 am on “Millennium Eve” to run one lap of the tan each hour for 24 hours. He called this his Millennium Bug……[Botanical Ultra Gallop]

I'm in for it.... maybe do 50miles worth up Anderson St. tother half down

It would make for a great venue for a 12 hour event (doubt it would get through cause of insurance). The laps would be big enough to not be boring. Its all on a nice surface off-road and its mostly flat but with enough small hills so that you get to use different muscles. I like it

did 9 laps yesterday..(but the ones where you run the extra bit to make up 4 km per lap)
reckon i would go INSANE running much further round there..unless they ban dog walkers of course..

I couldn't do it, I couldn't ignore all the other hills between Anderson St Caroline St. Or keep going around on the flat when I was faced with the rises all around up to the Shrine and the Myer Music Bowl. In fact I have enough trouble keeping on track just going around once.

The Tan isn't mostly flat Becky O. There is a solid hill on each lap, whichever direction you run. So if you had a 12 hour race there, you would potentially run 24- 36 hills in the event. Still, it would be a nice venue for such an event and would bring ultra-running close to the heart of Melbourne.

It would be great if they blocked off The Tan just for an event like this and really pumped it up.


Arms

Hi All

It’s interesting (to me) that some people are suggesting an organized run around the Tan.

I think that as we currently live in the “nanny state” and I’m sure that other minority groups would have to be consulted first, I just don’t believe it’s worth trying to officially organize a run.


However, what I did have in mind was a fat ass style “fun day” out, as logistics should be fairly easy and it’s quite difficult to get lost (which is a major bonus for some of the better Aus ultra runners!!!). It is probably worth doing the run this way first in any case and see just what trouble (if any) we get into.

So where and when how long ?

Well for me I need to start thinking about GNR in Nov, so with this in mind it would make for good training run if nothing else. How long I think is the question ? 100k and / or 100 miles, seems to be the options, but I’m up for any suggestions ? For me 100k training run (27 laps ) would be about right.

When, what about the first weekend in August ? – 7 weeks time or so ?

Any other ideas are most welcome.

Nick

Early May 2008, before Comrades and WS, would be great as a training run. I envisioned running it 9 times last year as a long training run before a marathon while visiting Melbourne. I managed 3 laps before I took off along the Yarra......boredom. Participating with lots of other nutters would be different though and much more fun.

If 100k australian championship can be run on public bike paths with cars, markets, walkers etc all present

(just read GC100k thread)
I do not see it any different for organized tanrun.

However I would like to know what You propose for carparking, the setup for crews, tables etc, where You place start finish, lap counting area etc

Nick, avoiding peek pedestrian/animal traffic like Sunday mornings maybe worth considering, but it's so long since I have run it Sunday mornings, it may not be so bad now, or maybe worse ?

Just wondering about security too if you plan on running through a Saturday night ? Can just imagine a lone runner being a bit of a target at 3am.

Nice idea though, i'd be up for a few laps.

If you wish to attract some ultra runners (track, trail or road) you may want to have a look at the AURA race calendar (or at least those ultras sanctioned by AURA) here. For August it would clash with the 24/48hr track in Qld but would be a good warm up training event if held a month or so before a 24hr race. Coburg 24hr (April), GC 24/48hr (Aug), Adel 24hr (Oct). Good concept and I'd be up for some laps (20, 25 or 30) if made official.

How very interesting! I was running around the Tan last week and trying to work out how many laps I could do before dying of boredom (at this time it is eight).

I would be very interested in giving an "Ultra Tan" session a bash.


BTW - Aren't Magnus' laps/times just fantastic to read!!

Richard, it is not very likely, that many ofthe same runners who are going for 48H Gc are going potentialy for the first year of tan ultra, this would be more as an fatass experiment race, and most likely only for MEL area.

That said, how about acrosstheyears concep starting in the old year and finishing in new one ?

Even if I could maintain my 15min single lap Tan pb pace for an hour (which I couldn't after a single lap), magnus would still have a whole lap on me by the hour.

13 Anderson streets for a 3hr 50k is just mind numbing. I assume he was on his lonesome too, running sub 14 min lap pace for all of them.

5 continuous laps at 12 minute pace is just freaky magnus, thanks for sharing.

chilliman,

As the 13 lapper was this year, a few weeks before canberra, i will try and post the lap splits and heart rates on here when i get home to oz.

The 5 lapper was years ago so Im not sure if i can find it.

The 10 lapper was 10 days before my pb marathon (the day I ran that I knew I was in good shape !!!!!!). I wasnt planning on running melbourne that year but ... when you are in GOOD shape you have to race, or no one would believe the times you did in training.

Hi All

To main event so to speak, I have attached a one pager about what I’m doing on the 5th Aug – fat ass style.

You’re very welcome to come along, but on your own terms.

I think it’s worth trying this run out first and see just what trouble I get into . Future years and dates along with format’s can be up for discussion later.



N


BTW - Magnus’s times are something else, the autumn Tan Corporate Cup managed just one person under 12mins for 1 lap – not 5 in row!!

I'm doing 34 that day as part of my Sydney marathon training and would love to join in - if you don't mind a non-ultra contender joining the fun.

I guess that puts me at 9 laps. Between now and then I only need to shave about an hour off my proposed 34km time to match MM! (Make that an hour and 20 because he ran 10 laps!)

I wonder how they're going....it's raining where I am... Let us know how it goes Nick!!

Izzy, we caught up with OldKnees this morning after our loop of the Capital city trail.

At around 10:30am he was on his 11th lap after starting I think he said 7am, so was going well.

He was looking at changing directions to anticlockwise after lap 13 and a coffee

Hmm, I stopped for a coffee at the observatory and recon I could have run a lap whilst I was waiting.

I loved the way he was keeping track of his laps by dropping a coloured clothes peg in a bag as he ran past his car

Good luck Nick, probably not far now at the time of this post to crack the 100k's.

Edit: It was raining at home when I left too, but not a drop in town, little bit of wind though.

Thanks for the update, Chilliman.

Sorry, I've been a bit slack at posting, here's the report.





The Tan Ultra

Or (26 laps of madness)


I thought as a fairly infrequent contributor to CR it would good to share with you my experiences with the inaugural running of the Tan Ultra last Sunday.


But first a bit of background – some months ago I made a new post to CR after running a few laps of the Tan one lunch time, basically it seems to me that very notable Ultra runners had completed 100k runs around Prince’s Pk in Melbourne but little was known about any Ultra runs around the Tan, so why not ?


After making a CR post a few people seemed interested, but for me I wonted to run it “Fat ass style” and questions of insurance and like I didn’t have the time to deal with.


5th August @ 06:45 at “Pillars of Wisdom”.


So, here I am at the “Pillars of Wisdom” (I suppose if you had real wisdom you may be questioning my sanity) on a coolish and damp Sunday morning, I waited around for awhile and as know one else looked like turning up, off I went. (To be really honest at this point I didn’t mind that I was doing this on my own). The first few laps were quite and uneventful apart for seeing a couple of rats running out of the gardens and heading for the Yarra there was not much else around. I decided to start eating early, for me it would normally be around the 2-2,1/2hr mark before I eat something solid, so this time after an hour or so I woofed down a white ham roll. I’ll list later all I ate as I know that eating and general nutrition on an Ultra is always an interesting topic, what works for one, fails for another and so on…. The weather was good around 9c with a light cool wind blowing from the SW.


Now the Tan doesn’t really start to wake up on a Sunday until 10am with a few joggers doing the odd lap or two. At this point I must say there are few joggers that should consider wearing more functional clothes, or may be try running at night or something and obviously there are some that should never stop !!. But I suppose the Tan is no different to any where else you see all sorts out there – and good-on-em. I’ll add to this report my lap splits (actuals in red), but basically I was targeting a 25min lap.




Start Time
7:00:00 AM
Time per lap 25.00 Mins 27.25
Tan Lap 3.85 Km

Hours Clock Time Actual
Time
21k of laps 5.45 Overall time 2:16:00 9:16:00 1:48
42k of laps 10.91 Overall time 4:33:00 11:33:00 4:10
84k of laps 21.82 Overall time 9:06:00 16:06:00 (50k -5:07)
100k of laps 25.97 Overall time 10:48:00 17:48:00 11:53


Around 11am or so, Chilliman can along after he just finished his 30k around Melbourne (sorry but I have forgotten who the other two where) – but thanks for the support and encouragement particularly going up Anderson St. At the next lap my wife can along and left me a hot flask of Chicken Noodle soup, which is a kind of hangover from my first 100k’er in Hong Kong – I can’t say why but it just “hits the spot” I think its all the salt.

So, after 4hrs of relative solitude 5 people seemed to turn up all at once, anyway going around Observatory Hill I had time for a quick Latte with my wife and Mike and Lesley from Knox Road Runners – this was turning into a social event – so I’m at about ½ way or so (13 laps) and feeling not at my best, but no matter keep moving is the only way, so off I went.

It’s strange but as we all know doing an Ultra there are major extremes of feelings during the day, after feeling down and stuffed, Chilliman popped up again and seemed to dig me out of a hole and quite a number of laps went by after that without me really noticing (it was either that or the Chicken Noodle soup). I was trying to keep to time, to give you and idea I was around 1hr ahead of my schedule at approximately 50k and finished over 1hr later than my schedule.

But then (Melbourne being Melbourne) it rained at about 75k, when I was attempting my only anti-clockwise lap, I think it was around lap 20 when the idea came to mind. Well for the record the only way in (my view) is to run the Tan clockwise – yes Anderson’s St is a pain, but it’s not such a large hill, as against the other way just seems to drag on and on… So after that lap, back to the clockwise direction.

It was good to see Mike and Lesley standing at the “Pillars of Wisdom”, but just prior to that, whilst dodging a puddle I felt a pull in what I thought was my left hammy so around the corner I came walking and holding my left leg. I had a quick chat and thanked them for their support, but I knew that if I kept going I may be able to run it off, which luckily I did after about a lap or so.

I just had time for another quick latte at the Hill café, with the girl behind the counter looking at me with some surprise – “Your still here?” (She had spoken too me at the last Latte stop earlier) “Yes” was about all the conversation I had in me. So to the final few laps, not too much to report (unless you are a Bombers fan) it was just a bit too obvious who won the Sunday AFL game at the “G”. So with time passing by and Anderson St losing its excitement the 26th and last lap came along. With what I had left I gave it one last shove and managed a 19:10 lap, which for me with a Tan PB of 17:46 (and it nearly killed me) - I was quite pleased about, I suppose finishing with nobody around is a bit different but I still “Punched the Air” and let out a load scream.


So what did I learn?

Well it’s possible to hold an Ultra around the Tan, logistically it’s very easy.

I’m considering organising one for the same time next year, if enough interest is shown and I’m also think a “predicted” run may be and idea, but I’m open to any suggestions.

Clockwise direction around the Tan is the only way, and no I didn’t go “stir crazy” nether.

This was my fastest 100k time, previously I had done 5 Trail walkers (Sydney, Melbourne, Hong Kong (2) & UK) and this was by far the easiest track – and no hills.



Food – not in any particular order:-

3 Ham Rolls
1 Plain Roll
2 Bananas
½ small Pk of dried fruit
2 Power Gels (strawberry & banana) something this bad must be good for you??
1Lt of Chicken Noodle soup
A handful of peanuts
41/2 – 5 Lts of Fluid (around 50/50 water and weak Gatorade Powder)
2 Latte
1 small slice of cake.


And yes I enjoyed, stuffing it all in?

Nick




The table formatting has gone abit strange - but I think you can get the idea.

Well done Old Knees. That's a mighty fine effort, and a good report.

Great work old knees !!!! My goal was always to get somewhere closer to 20 laps but I was always a bit soft.

Your story has reminded me to put up my 13 lapper (prep for comrades).

March 8 2007

Time Split HR Ave HR Max

13:45 13:45 134 145
27:31 13:46 137 147
41:31 13:59 138 147
55:29 13:58 134 147 *plus a toilet stop (not timed)
1:09:36 14:07 135 146
1:23:25 13:48 137 146
1:37:11 13:45 141 148
1:51:10 13:58 140 148
2:05:02 13:52 141 151
2:18:47 13:45 142 151
2:32:42 13:54 144 152 #marathon split
2:46:44 14:02 147 154
3:01:00 14:16 148 155

You can see I cheated stopping the watch to go the toilet. I tried to do about 1 to 1.5 laps between drink stops (which i think i may not have timed as well). There was about 8 drink stops of 10secs each and 90sec toliet stop so you can add 2-3mins to my time.

Great effort Nick!! How will C2S feel after that??

Might just join you next year....

Well done Nick, top effort.

Thanks Magnus for posting your splits, awesome

Amen brother...loved the report Nick!

thanks old knees -


re running the tan - the 12 hour idea is great - i am for it - who could organise - that is the question?

Great effort, Old knees. It's a long way to keep up the effort in a training run.
Your last lap is very impressive.

Hi All

Thanks for the kind words.

I’m happy to organise it for the around the same time next year and like the idea of a predicted run or 12hrs or something. I think it may be possible to get AURA interested – if so they have insurance.


I did forget to add to the report about my lap counting technique – basically I had 26 Clothes Pegs and each lap I would deposit one by my car adjacent to the start. I was going to use golf tees but I didn’t have enough. It was the only way I could think of to trying to remember which lap I was actually on.

Great effort, Nick. I can now feel privileged to have run eith you [albeit briefly] on the previous Thursday. 100km is difficult to race but solo take an extra precentage of mental application.

I wonder how your 'state-of-the-art" lap counting method would stack up against those wizz bang computer chips?

I think I've got 26 clothes pegs somewhere (definitely have 26 golf tees in the shed), maybe I'll join you next year.

Hi All


I’m thinking of doing another Tan Ultra Run – Fatass Style this year.

See the previous threads for more details regarding last year.

Details attached for 2008.

Any takers? 26 laps in 12hrs?


Nick

i particularly like the instructions re anyone dropping dead

Yes. If I'm fit. About time Shaz acted as crew for me for a change!

J.

Could be tempted, but heading off for a conference on the 17th... not sure if I'd have the willpower either, it's a bit different when you have to keep going just to get back / home.

to save the downloads :

17 august sunday 7am

Old Knees I will give this one some thought, not having ventured farther than marathon distance. Pacing would be pure guesswork but I could start off at six minute pace and see how I feel after say 50km which would be my first official fat ass ultra distance or any ultra distance for that matter.
Lap counting could be tricky but where there's a will there's a way.

Old Knees has a very unique and patented method for lap counting.

Shaz will be crewing for me if I do it. She hasn't been told yet, but she will I'm sure she would happily count laps for each competitor if we assigned ourselves a number or secret code word that we shout out each time we go past a pre-determined point. Might even write the time down next to each lap so you have some split feedback at the end if you're lucky. Shouldn't be a big job with a 3.8km lap - assuming there's not some ridiculous number of starters!

J.

Using Old Knees' method, each competitor could have different colour pegs. If it was a nice windy day just think of all those washing loads that could be dried

I could use a bib number from a previously completed fun run as a means of id. Failsafe would be to use a stick marking vertical lines in the sand at the pillars of wisdom as per prison cell day counting.